tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post1346484037926707049..comments2023-09-19T07:50:13.308-07:00Comments on Feminary: Liberals, SchmiberalsStasihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10864458542635159512noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-86597712364944262192009-01-30T16:10:00.000-08:002009-01-30T16:10:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Gail P Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12453107093228829877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-30322237483393545402009-01-30T16:09:00.000-08:002009-01-30T16:09:00.000-08:00Enjoyed your post and all the comments.Enjoyed your post and all the comments.Gail P Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12453107093228829877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-7812716384596870392009-01-29T10:41:00.000-08:002009-01-29T10:41:00.000-08:00Thank you for that grace. The point of the post wa...Thank you for that grace. The point of the post was to talk about the loss of a sense of personal responsibility in the mess of the world, and a bit of complaint about the triumphal attitude I've been hearing (my colleague Christopher Evans wrote about it much more eloquently on Facebook, but without being his friend, I don't know if you can see his note).<BR/><BR/>Anyway I didn't really want the conversation to go the way it has. Although I still will stand by my wish that we won't be so tainted by W's errors that we refuse to admit one can garner one's values from one's faith. That's all.<BR/><BR/>(since it's my blog, can I have the last word? :)Stasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10864458542635159512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-7143891618719360272009-01-28T20:14:00.000-08:002009-01-28T20:14:00.000-08:00Hey, you SAID you loved reactions! ;-)Since you sa...Hey, you SAID you loved reactions! ;-)<BR/><BR/>Since you said you are tired and the baby is crying, I won't fire back. I've been there and I remember...<BR/><BR/>Prayers for you, for Maggie and J, for the obnoxious liberals, and for all who need them.<BR/><BR/>Pax,<BR/>DoxyWormwood's Doxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10882756844690851674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-87519380697533576242009-01-28T16:03:00.000-08:002009-01-28T16:03:00.000-08:00Yes, that is good - thank you Mark!We all do reali...Yes, that is good - thank you Mark!<BR/><BR/>We all do realize that I'm going on about 3 hours of sleep, right? And writing in between crying jags (sometimes even the baby's)?<BR/><BR/>OK. Just wanted to get that out there.Stasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10864458542635159512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-30816848966246413242009-01-28T15:48:00.000-08:002009-01-28T15:48:00.000-08:00It occurs to me that the comments in this blog mig...It occurs to me that the comments in <A HREF="http://tribalchurch.org/?p=958" REL="nofollow">this blog</A> might be rather appropriate to this conversation.Mark Baker-Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14593390925694976101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-42724570855966624992009-01-28T11:08:00.000-08:002009-01-28T11:08:00.000-08:00Oh for crying out loud. It was a joke. The truth b...Oh for crying out loud. It was a joke. The truth behind it is that most Christians DO think atheists are being stupid, because they are ignoring the abundant life possible through God's presence. And most atheists I've talked to REALLY think Christians are stupid, because we believe in fairy tales and all that hoo ha. I'm pretty sure my atheist friends (I'm not making them up) would understand what I mean...but it is hard to read tone into writing sometimes. At any rate, there is a basic disrespect of one another's worldview that naturally arises when said views are such polar opposites; my POINT was that the Christians have far more in common and therefore should stop picking on one another. What sucks is that I find myself getting along better with the atheists than the Christians a lot of the time. My comment was satirical/hyperbolic (exaggerated to make an effect): we should be able to agree on same basic level. Though clearly that is difficult, as this conversation attests.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, after all this time, if you think I'm "nominally" progressive, you either haven't been reading very carefully or you have a strange definition of progressive.<BR/><BR/>As for the "wica" comment, I generally ignore ignorance like that, and I suggest you do too. Life will be much simpler. Not that education isn't important, but probably my blog's comments aren't the appropriate place (esp considering the commenter probably won't ever come back to see your correction). I find that actually helping people learn tends to happen in person, and back and forth of this nature online often causes deeper retraction into one's original viewpoints, no matter how incorrect they may be. Just sayin'.<BR/><BR/>And frequent readers of my blog know my position on faith in politics - that Christians have no place in public office. To truly represent this pluralist nation, one must put one's own faith aside. I at least couldn't do that, but I can't speak to the faith of those who've been elected. That's totally between them & God. One thing I WILL say is that if they claim their actions are arising from their faith, it better darn well be consistent. And I don't find it offensive in the least to say that Obama might get some of his values from his faith, because I believe that that is one of the helpful things about having some measure of faith as a public figure - it does ground you in a moral compass. [Which you can totally do if your faith is based in humanism as well.] But the point in my post (which this is all about, right?) was that I couldn't believe Christians themselves would be offended that someone might say Obama has a faith-based moral compass. Sure, I can see how a non-religious person wouldn't like that, but why would a Christian be threatened? <BR/><BR/>Because of Bush? Please. Let's just get over it. We knew all along he wasn't truly acting out of his faith, at least not the way we "nominal progressives" understand the faith to be, so let's not give him that much credit. He can't spoil faith-based action for everyone. And it's our job as Christians (as it has been these many years past) to show our neighbors how real Christians believe and behave.<BR/><BR/>OK I am now officially tired of hearing myself think.Stasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10864458542635159512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-56515979098098922072009-01-28T03:13:00.000-08:002009-01-28T03:13:00.000-08:00When you are constantly in the public eye...thats ...<I>When you are constantly in the public eye...thats when...for all I know, he could be a wicka...</I><BR/><BR/>Logs and specks, anyone? And it's "Wiccan," just FYI.<BR/><BR/><I>So I said, "Why can't we all just agree to pick on the atheists? They're the ones being stupid."<BR/><BR/>(no offense to my atheist friends. just making a point)</I><BR/><BR/>To be honest with you, I find that statement much more offensive than people gloating about the election. Atheists have good reason to fear people calling themselves "Christians," and they often don't differentiate between "fundamentalist," "evangelical," or "progressive." To them, we all look alike--and when a nominally progressive person makes a joke like that, I can see why. <BR/><BR/>Given what "religious" people have done to this country over the last 30 years, I think I would rather have the atheists in charge. At least when they did evil, they wouldn't do it in the name of God.<BR/><BR/>DoxyWormwood's Doxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10882756844690851674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-85334451300711424832009-01-27T18:28:00.000-08:002009-01-27T18:28:00.000-08:00Yay! I love reactions.I get the thing about finall...Yay! I love reactions.<BR/><BR/>I get the thing about finally feeling relief and joy about the election and hope for the future of the country. I feel it too. I have just been in the company of some people who have crossed the line from celebrating to gloating, and it's not polite.<BR/><BR/>I wish the Christians could just get along (they'll know us by our love?). I complained to J that the Evangelicals have become the easy target group for everything the liberals hate, and he pointed out that the reverse also holds true. <BR/><BR/>So I said, "Why can't we all just agree to pick on the atheists? They're the ones being stupid."<BR/><BR/>(no offense to my atheist friends. just making a point)Stasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10864458542635159512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-84929698133573197822009-01-27T15:31:00.000-08:002009-01-27T15:31:00.000-08:00When you are constantly in the public eye...thats ...When you are constantly in the public eye...thats when...for all I know, he could be a wicka...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397846801178645384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-88479438566809283102009-01-27T15:12:00.000-08:002009-01-27T15:12:00.000-08:00Thanks for sharing. Trust me, you're not a closet...Thanks for sharing. Trust me, you're not a closet fundie (or, at least, if you are, what does that make <I>me</I>?).<BR/><BR/>I spent some time at another seminary before coming to Fuller (two, actually, both on opposite ends of the spectrum, this is the more immediate one) that I came to describe as espousing a "liberal closed-mindedness" that I found troubling. I'm glad not to have that problem so much here.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I've found that being at Fuller creates a different kind of problem. I'm not entirely sure where I "fit" anymore. Trying to be fair to all sides seems not to be a very popular option....Mark Baker-Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14593390925694976101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-77535529966788526442009-01-27T12:09:00.000-08:002009-01-27T12:09:00.000-08:00Ummm...since when does not attending church mean y...Ummm...since when does not attending church mean you have no faith?<BR/><BR/>DoxyWormwood's Doxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10882756844690851674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-27525566943272258002009-01-27T12:07:00.000-08:002009-01-27T12:07:00.000-08:00I really like this post, a friend of mine posted ...I really like this post, a friend of mine posted in on facebook. Stepping outside of someones "world view" is what is needed more and more everyday to help 2 sides agree on things, but that's assuming that all issues are in the grey area. Homosexuality and Abortion are two major issues I can think of that are some feel are black and white issues, there is no compromise. Until peoples hearts change to issues, instead of discussing them and nodding, will your post and its words actually take flight and have meaning. <BR/><BR/>2 more things<BR/>47% of this country voted for mccain...I think thats more than a few<BR/>and<BR/>considering Obama hasn't been to church since he left Father Wrights church, I don't know how much his faith really plays into his policies. Unless you count liberalism as a faith.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397846801178645384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-76425861153203148022009-01-27T03:20:00.000-08:002009-01-27T03:20:00.000-08:00I have made the same argument myself--that for so ...I have made the same argument myself--that for so many people in the church, "sin" means big, abstract things, and we don't want to talk about individual sin. It seems so...narrow-minded. (Having spent the formative years of my life in a fundamentalist church and school, my theology of sin is quite...well-developed.)<BR/><BR/>But I think you need to cut people some slack on the Obama thing. The relief is palpable for a lot of people. It's not that we simply disliked George Bush. It's that he and his cronies nearly destroyed the Constitution---while, I might add, our "liberal" representatives in Congress sat back and let him do it. President Obama has already demonstrated that he knows what the "rule of law" means and many of us are celebrating that. I don't have to see him as the Messiah to know that things are VERY different in Washington after this week.<BR/><BR/>For my part, at least, that "gloating" you hear is nothing more than relief that the country I love still exists. There are hard days ahead of us---give people a few days to revel in the change they sought. They'll get it soon enough--and we'll be back to the old business of tearing down the very person we worked so hard to elect.<BR/><BR/>My ex was fond of saying "The only person who likes change is a baby with a wet diaper." And I often had to remind him that neither of our children much cared for being changed even then...<BR/><BR/>Pax,<BR/>DoxyWormwood's Doxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10882756844690851674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8428685.post-36437882742890793992009-01-26T23:16:00.000-08:002009-01-26T23:16:00.000-08:00I SO feel you on this. I think engaging in critica...I SO feel you on this. I think engaging in critical thinking with regard to both sides of the spectrum ultimately makes you demand nuance across the board...something in which the extremes are sadly lacking.twocentshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15943931484079011720noreply@blogger.com